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overo com reliability

mmeisner
We have taken a prototype to a few trade shows, and other than a few hangs where the overo would stop responding (not acceptable for production), it has fared reasonably well.  We did however talk to a company who got through a full development cycle with the overo, and in production, had major reliability problems.  I will be following up this week for more details.  

I have read that finding a very stable linux kernal is key because certain builds cause issues.  Other than the common bluetooth and wifi issues, has anyone experienced any major problems in production?  Were they a result of hardware or software?  

Thanks!
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Re: overo com reliability

roystonvasey
We have had a little over 200 Overo COMs out in public transport vehicles (buses and ferries) since May 2009.
We have had zero failures.
The environment is quite harsh with units being switched on/off several times a day with no shut-down procedure and operational spikes of over 40C ambient (buses parked in direct sunlight with AirCon switched off.

We did had some problems with deleted log files reappearing caused power loss which has been resolved by moving from JFFS2 to UBIFS but nothing that has caused a failure in the field.

The instability in the kernel can be put down to engineer's desire to always have the latest and greatest.
If you stick with a stable kernel and avoid the temptation to grab Steve's latest WIP you should be fine.
It also helps with maintenance and support if you avoid changing kernels too often.

Cheers Mike.
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Re: overo com reliability

Jeff DeFouw-2
In reply to this post by mmeisner
On 3/19/2012 9:26 AM, mmeisner wrote:

> We have taken a prototype to a few trade shows, and other than a few hangs
> where the overo would stop responding (not acceptable for production), it
> has fared reasonably well.  We did however talk to a company who got through
> a full development cycle with the overo, and in production, had major
> reliability problems.  I will be following up this week for more details.
>
> I have read that finding a very stable linux kernal is key because certain
> builds cause issues.  Other than the common bluetooth and wifi issues, has
> anyone experienced any major problems in production?  Were they a result of
> hardware or software?

Starting in 2010, our first 80 or so Water boards had many hardware issues
that were discovered during testing.  The biggest problem was that the USB
Host would randomly die (a permanent death).  It might happen before testing,
during testing, or some time after shipping to the customer.  Many have come
back to be replaced when the customer couldn't load an update.  We've also had
many of the early boards freeze up after a while with the customer, some
running for rapidly decreasing periods until finally they won't boot at all.
The failure rate in later batches (220+ boards) has been much better.

The main problem we have right now is the OpenGL graphics driver.  We use
OpenGL for everything, directly drawing our own user interface, and share that
code base with earlier products on different processors and GPU's.  The driver
version we're using often locks up right after booting, and sometimes
completely fails to draw some textures or triangles depending on the frame and
how the calls are ordered.  Once the user successfully gets to a main screen,
the system is stable.  We do a test during boot to make sure the driver
renders properly, but it doesn't catch many cases.  The newer drivers look
like they might fix those two problems, except that they often fail to draw
anything inside a scissor window, and would also require more kernel work.

I put together our 2.6.32 kernel in January 2010, using linux-omap and patches
from OE, mailing lists, and other trees.  The kernel has been very stable.
The special (non-mainline) ARM kernels were a huge, ugly mess, with several
versions of patches being reverted and reapplied all the time, and different
trees didn't have all the same patches, even if they were important.  Mainline
support is always getting better, but I see this is still a problem.

--
Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
Programmer
Grand Rapids Technologies

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Re: overo com reliability

Dan Nelson
Hi Jeff,

Can you point me to where I can find the Gumstix 2.6.32 source or patch?

Thanks

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff DeFouw [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:03 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Gumstix-users] overo com reliability

On 3/19/2012 9:26 AM, mmeisner wrote:
> We have taken a prototype to a few trade shows, and other than a few
hangs
> where the overo would stop responding (not acceptable for production),
it
> has fared reasonably well.  We did however talk to a company who got
through
> a full development cycle with the overo, and in production, had major
> reliability problems.  I will be following up this week for more
details.
>
> I have read that finding a very stable linux kernal is key because
certain
> builds cause issues.  Other than the common bluetooth and wifi issues,
has
> anyone experienced any major problems in production?  Were they a
result of
> hardware or software?

Starting in 2010, our first 80 or so Water boards had many hardware
issues
that were discovered during testing.  The biggest problem was that the
USB
Host would randomly die (a permanent death).  It might happen before
testing,
during testing, or some time after shipping to the customer.  Many have
come
back to be replaced when the customer couldn't load an update.  We've
also had
many of the early boards freeze up after a while with the customer, some

running for rapidly decreasing periods until finally they won't boot at
all.
The failure rate in later batches (220+ boards) has been much better.

The main problem we have right now is the OpenGL graphics driver.  We
use
OpenGL for everything, directly drawing our own user interface, and
share that
code base with earlier products on different processors and GPU's.  The
driver
version we're using often locks up right after booting, and sometimes
completely fails to draw some textures or triangles depending on the
frame and
how the calls are ordered.  Once the user successfully gets to a main
screen,
the system is stable.  We do a test during boot to make sure the driver
renders properly, but it doesn't catch many cases.  The newer drivers
look
like they might fix those two problems, except that they often fail to
draw
anything inside a scissor window, and would also require more kernel
work.

I put together our 2.6.32 kernel in January 2010, using linux-omap and
patches
from OE, mailing lists, and other trees.  The kernel has been very
stable.
The special (non-mainline) ARM kernels were a huge, ugly mess, with
several
versions of patches being reverted and reapplied all the time, and
different
trees didn't have all the same patches, even if they were important.
Mainline
support is always getting better, but I see this is still a problem.

--
Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
Programmer
Grand Rapids Technologies

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Re: overo com reliability

Dan Nelson
In reply to this post by roystonvasey
Hi Mike,

Which COM are you using?

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: roystonvasey [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 8:13 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Gumstix-users] overo com reliability

We have had a little over 200 Overo COMs out in public transport
vehicles
(buses and ferries) since May 2009.
We have had zero failures.
The environment is quite harsh with units being switched on/off several
times a day with no shut-down procedure and operational spikes of over
40C
ambient (buses parked in direct sunlight with AirCon switched off.

We did had some problems with deleted log files reappearing caused power
loss which has been resolved by moving from JFFS2 to UBIFS but nothing
that
has caused a failure in the field.

The instability in the kernel can be put down to engineer's desire to
always
have the latest and greatest.
If you stick with a stable kernel and avoid the temptation to grab
Steve's
latest WIP you should be fine.
It also helps with maintenance and support if you avoid changing kernels
too
often.

Cheers Mike.

--
View this message in context:
http://gumstix.8.n6.nabble.com/overo-com-reliability-tp4633290p4635214.h
tml
Sent from the Gumstix mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: overo com reliability

mmeisner
In reply to this post by Jeff DeFouw-2
Jeff,

What was the failure rate in the later batches?  Was it still only the USB host that was giving you problems?  Have you verified that it is the overo COM and not the expansion board?

It seems like you are pretty happy with the overo COMs.  We haven't gotten into OpenGL yet, but will have to eventually for some 3D plotting.

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

-Mark
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Re: overo com reliability

mmeisner
In reply to this post by roystonvasey
Mike,

Thanks for the feedback.  You seem very satisfied with the overo COMs.  The extended temp and shut-down information was helpful.

-Mark
j
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Re: overo com reliability

j
On 03/20/2012 06:17 AM, mmeisner wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Thanks for the feedback.  You seem very satisfied with the overo COMs.  The
> extended temp and shut-down information was helpful.
>
> -Mark
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://gumstix.8.n6.nabble.com/overo-com-reliability-tp4633290p4636689.html
> Sent from the Gumstix mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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and can we be a part of that info as well?

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Re: overo com reliability

roystonvasey
In reply to this post by Dan Nelson
Dear Dan,
We have a mix of Earth and Fire COMs.
All our kernels have been from the Gumstix/Sakoman tree. You have Steve and the Gumstix community working on these. Although I haven't tried other trees it seems like hard duplicated effort to get to a stable configuration.
We are currently using 3.0.0. with the 4.03.00.02 TI PowerVR drivers (Fire COM).

Cheers Mike.
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Re: overo com reliability

Dan Nelson
In reply to this post by Jeff DeFouw-2
Thanks Jeff,

Did you ever figure out exactly what the problems with the USB were?
Was is the COM itself?

I'm starting to get a bit worried.  I'm designing an expansion board
with a TUSB8040 USB hub chip, it's a crucial part of the design.  But
I'm not having much luck with USB on the two Gumstix boards that I've
got.

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff DeFouw [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:03 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Gumstix-users] overo com reliability

On 3/19/2012 9:26 AM, mmeisner wrote:
> We have taken a prototype to a few trade shows, and other than a few
hangs
> where the overo would stop responding (not acceptable for production),
it
> has fared reasonably well.  We did however talk to a company who got
through
> a full development cycle with the overo, and in production, had major
> reliability problems.  I will be following up this week for more
details.
>
> I have read that finding a very stable linux kernal is key because
certain
> builds cause issues.  Other than the common bluetooth and wifi issues,
has
> anyone experienced any major problems in production?  Were they a
result of
> hardware or software?

Starting in 2010, our first 80 or so Water boards had many hardware
issues
that were discovered during testing.  The biggest problem was that the
USB
Host would randomly die (a permanent death).  It might happen before
testing,
during testing, or some time after shipping to the customer.  Many have
come
back to be replaced when the customer couldn't load an update.  We've
also had
many of the early boards freeze up after a while with the customer, some

running for rapidly decreasing periods until finally they won't boot at
all.
The failure rate in later batches (220+ boards) has been much better.

The main problem we have right now is the OpenGL graphics driver.  We
use
OpenGL for everything, directly drawing our own user interface, and
share that
code base with earlier products on different processors and GPU's.  The
driver
version we're using often locks up right after booting, and sometimes
completely fails to draw some textures or triangles depending on the
frame and
how the calls are ordered.  Once the user successfully gets to a main
screen,
the system is stable.  We do a test during boot to make sure the driver
renders properly, but it doesn't catch many cases.  The newer drivers
look
like they might fix those two problems, except that they often fail to
draw
anything inside a scissor window, and would also require more kernel
work.

I put together our 2.6.32 kernel in January 2010, using linux-omap and
patches
from OE, mailing lists, and other trees.  The kernel has been very
stable.
The special (non-mainline) ARM kernels were a huge, ugly mess, with
several
versions of patches being reverted and reapplied all the time, and
different
trees didn't have all the same patches, even if they were important.
Mainline
support is always getting better, but I see this is still a problem.

--
Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
Programmer
Grand Rapids Technologies

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Re: overo com reliability

mmeisner
After researching the reliability issues further we’ve found that the few identified issues have been already been addressed and are no longer open issues.  Therefore, we have concluded to continue to move forward with the development of our project with full confidence in the Gumstix platform.

-Mark
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Re: overo com reliability

Jeff DeFouw-2
In reply to this post by Dan Nelson
On 3/19/2012 10:45 PM, Dan Nelson wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Can you point me to where I can find the Gumstix 2.6.32 source or patch?

I put a big diff against the linux-omap tree here:

http://www.grtavionics.com/File/Software/Source/sx-kernel-patches.tar.gz

The ref for linux-omap is in there as well as a defconfig.

I don't know how useful it will be to someone else as a whole.  It contains
mainline stable kernel updates and our custom changes.  I really need to
extract the individual patches when I'm not super busy.

--
Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
Programmer
Grand Rapids Technologies

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Re: overo com reliability

Jeff DeFouw-2
In reply to this post by mmeisner
On 3/20/2012 9:16 AM, mmeisner wrote:
> What was the failure rate in the later batches?  Was it still only the USB
> host that was giving you problems?  Have you verified that it is the overo
> COM and not the expansion board?
>
> It seems like you are pretty happy with the overo COMs.  We haven't gotten
> into OpenGL yet, but will have to eventually for some 3D plotting.

We haven't kept close track of the failures and what batch they are from,
except that I can tell the earlier ones from how the board looks.  Most of the
failures are prior to Gumstix adding work-order stickers to all the boards,
but that also means they've had the most time to fail.  I still see the
occasional problem during testing, including at least one USB Host failure,
unstable NAND, and bad display interface lines.  I have at least 3 from more
recent batches with USB Host failures.  We haven't figured out a cause for any
of the failures, but we've added an extra USB protection chip to our board anyway.

--
Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
Programmer
Grand Rapids Technologies

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Re: overo com reliability

Jeff DeFouw-2
In reply to this post by Dan Nelson
On 3/20/2012 10:32 PM, Dan Nelson wrote:
> Thanks Jeff,
>
> Did you ever figure out exactly what the problems with the USB were?
> Was is the COM itself?
>
> I'm starting to get a bit worried.  I'm designing an expansion board
> with a TUSB8040 USB hub chip, it's a crucial part of the design.  But
> I'm not having much luck with USB on the two Gumstix boards that I've
> got.

We don't know what causes it to fail, but I've had the USB be dead right out
of the box from Gumstix.  That makes us suspect the COM, except that this
mailing list isn't overflowing with USB failures from those early batches.
The batch that had an excessive amount of failures had obvious differences in
manufacturing.

Other than the hardware failures, the only USB issue I know of is with
detecting devices after a device has failed to enumerate, or something like
that.  You have to reboot.  I think that was fixed with a kernel patch later.

--
Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
Programmer
Grand Rapids Technologies

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Re: overo com reliability

Dan Nelson
In reply to this post by Jeff DeFouw-2
Thanks Jeff, it's reassuring to hear that the Gumstix overall are
reliable.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff DeFouw [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:20 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Gumstix-users] overo com reliability

On 3/20/2012 9:16 AM, mmeisner wrote:
> What was the failure rate in the later batches?  Was it still only the
USB
> host that was giving you problems?  Have you verified that it is the
overo
> COM and not the expansion board?
>
> It seems like you are pretty happy with the overo COMs.  We haven't
gotten
> into OpenGL yet, but will have to eventually for some 3D plotting.

We haven't kept close track of the failures and what batch they are
from,
except that I can tell the earlier ones from how the board looks.  Most
of the
failures are prior to Gumstix adding work-order stickers to all the
boards,
but that also means they've had the most time to fail.  I still see the
occasional problem during testing, including at least one USB Host
failure,
unstable NAND, and bad display interface lines.  I have at least 3 from
more
recent batches with USB Host failures.  We haven't figured out a cause
for any
of the failures, but we've added an extra USB protection chip to our
board anyway.

--
Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
Programmer
Grand Rapids Technologies

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Re: overo com reliability

Philipp Lutz
In reply to this post by Jeff DeFouw-2
Hi Jeff,

the USB host issue sounds similar here. I've some Tobi boards of the
same revision (R3388) which seem to be the cause that the USB host is
not working. I can't even measure the USB supply voltage (5V).
Whereas other revisions (R2783 or R3493) work very well with the same
COM board (Tide/WaterSTORM) on top.
Is this a common and known problem with some revisions? If so I'll try
to get my affected boards replaced.

Phil


-------- Original Message  --------
Subject: Re: [Gumstix-users] overo com reliability
From: Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: 03/21/2012 09:31 PM

> On 3/20/2012 10:32 PM, Dan Nelson wrote:
>> Thanks Jeff,
>>
>> Did you ever figure out exactly what the problems with the USB were?
>> Was is the COM itself?
>>
>> I'm starting to get a bit worried.  I'm designing an expansion board
>> with a TUSB8040 USB hub chip, it's a crucial part of the design.  But
>> I'm not having much luck with USB on the two Gumstix boards that I've
>> got.
> We don't know what causes it to fail, but I've had the USB be dead right out
> of the box from Gumstix.  That makes us suspect the COM, except that this
> mailing list isn't overflowing with USB failures from those early batches.
> The batch that had an excessive amount of failures had obvious differences in
> manufacturing.
>
> Other than the hardware failures, the only USB issue I know of is with
> detecting devices after a device has failed to enumerate, or something like
> that.  You have to reboot.  I think that was fixed with a kernel patch later.


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Re: overo com reliability

Jeff DeFouw-2
On 3/22/2012 7:07 AM, Philipp Lutz wrote:
> the USB host issue sounds similar here. I've some Tobi boards of the
> same revision (R3388) which seem to be the cause that the USB host is
> not working. I can't even measure the USB supply voltage (5V).
> Whereas other revisions (R2783 or R3493) work very well with the same
> COM board (Tide/WaterSTORM) on top.
> Is this a common and known problem with some revisions? If so I'll try
> to get my affected boards replaced.

I think power was OK on the expansion boards when I last tested the failed COM
boards there.  The problem we see shows up as a failure to detect the
connection or continuous enumeration errors.  We make our own custom expansion
board and only have one Palo43 and one Tobi for testing, so I wouldn't find
out about any problems with them.

--
Jeff DeFouw <[hidden email]>
Programmer
Grand Rapids Technologies

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Re: overo com reliability

Neil MacMunn
In reply to this post by Philipp Lutz
Hi Philipp,

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Philipp Lutz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> the USB host issue sounds similar here. I've some Tobi boards of the
> same revision (R3388) which seem to be the cause that the USB host is
> not working. I can't even measure the USB supply voltage (5V).

Some R3388 Tobi boards have this issue. You can contact sales@gumstix
to have them replaced.


> Whereas other revisions (R2783 or R3493) work very well with the same
> COM board (Tide/WaterSTORM) on top.
> Is this a common and known problem with some revisions? If so I'll try
> to get my affected boards replaced.
>
> Phil

-
Neil

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Gumstix+Robovero and ROS

Juan David Hernández Vega
Hi everyone,

I installed ubuntu 10.04 on a overoFire+Robovero. The idea is to run some tests using ROS. Although I have wifi working, I can't see /dev/ttyACM0. I am able to mount cdc_acm module, since I can see using lsmod:

root@gumstix:/lib/modules/2.6.34/kernel/drivers/usb/class# lsmod
Module                  Size  Used by
cdc_acm                14361  0
ftdi_sio               31243  0
usbserial              30552  1 ftdi_sio
dm_crypt               11543  0
dm_mod                 59745  1 dm_crypt
libertas_sdio          13551  0
libertas              145274  1 libertas_sdio
lib80211                5167  1 libertas
ads7846                 8515  0
ipv6                  219860  10


However when I type ls /dev/tty* I got this:

/dev/tty    /dev/tty13  /dev/tty19  /dev/tty24  /dev/tty3   /dev/tty35  /dev/tty40  /dev/tty46  /dev/tty51  /dev/tty57  /dev/tty62  /dev/ttyS1
/dev/tty0   /dev/tty14  /dev/tty2   /dev/tty25  /dev/tty30  /dev/tty36  /dev/tty41  /dev/tty47  /dev/tty52  /dev/tty58  /dev/tty63  /dev/ttyS2
/dev/tty1   /dev/tty15  /dev/tty20  /dev/tty26  /dev/tty31  /dev/tty37  /dev/tty42  /dev/tty48  /dev/tty53  /dev/tty59  /dev/tty7   /dev/ttyS3
/dev/tty10  /dev/tty16  /dev/tty21  /dev/tty27  /dev/tty32  /dev/tty38  /dev/tty43  /dev/tty49  /dev/tty54  /dev/tty6   /dev/tty8   /dev/ttyUSB0
/dev/tty11  /dev/tty17  /dev/tty22  /dev/tty28  /dev/tty33  /dev/tty39  /dev/tty44  /dev/tty5   /dev/tty55  /dev/tty60  /dev/tty9   /dev/ttyUSB1
/dev/tty12  /dev/tty18  /dev/tty23  /dev/tty29  /dev/tty34  /dev/tty4   /dev/tty45  /dev/tty50  /dev/tty56  /dev/tty61  /dev/ttyS0


Has anyone try to use the robovero from a gumstix using Ubuntu ??

Thanks in advance and regards ...


Juan David


On Mar 27, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Neil MacMunn wrote:

> Hi Philipp,
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Philipp Lutz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> the USB host issue sounds similar here. I've some Tobi boards of the
>> same revision (R3388) which seem to be the cause that the USB host is
>> not working. I can't even measure the USB supply voltage (5V).
>
> Some R3388 Tobi boards have this issue. You can contact sales@gumstix
> to have them replaced.
>
>
>> Whereas other revisions (R2783 or R3493) work very well with the same
>> COM board (Tide/WaterSTORM) on top.
>> Is this a common and known problem with some revisions? If so I'll try
>> to get my affected boards replaced.
>>
>> Phil
>
> -
> Neil
>
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Re: overo com reliability

Don Anderson
In reply to this post by mmeisner
Hi Everyone

Thought you may be interested to learn that one of our US-based customers tested an Overo IronSTORM COM, custom expansion board and flex ribbon cable configuration to US MIl Spec 810.F.

Their test results:

MIL-STD 810F Method 514.5 Vibration (constant acceleration) - Passed

MIL-STD 810F Method 516.5 Shock - Passed.

Note, this testing included "40G jolts while running", according to the customer.


These tests results reconfirm:

- the robustness of the dual 70-pin connectors.

- the reliability of the 27-pin camera connector. This is particularly good news as so many customers are building Overo-based, camera solutions for a mobile, robust environment.

Got to the Developers Center here for more information and related design recommendations.


Don Anderson

@ Gumstix

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