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DuoVero Camera

Jason C. Mecham

I’m interested in using the DuoVero in a camera system, but I have a few concerns I need to address.

 

1.) Is there an estimate on when a Caspa type camera will be available for it? I love the fact that the MIPI/CSI is on the two connectors versus a less than ideal flex cable (at least it’s less than ideal for our application).

 

2.) Does anyone know the practical length limitation of MIPI/CSI using a shielded twisted pair cable with the correct impendence? My only issue with MIPI is really understanding how far I can drive the signal. In our current solution I use LVDS for about 20inches before it gets converted back into Parallel and then into the DM3730/OMAP3530. The current solution works well aside from the fact I have to use a digital filter to prevent EMI/ESD events from throwing off the ISP/Previewer, and the frame rate limitation by the ISP parallel interface. MIPI is the easiest way to overcome both of those headaches, but I've never seen anyone use it more than a few inches at most. I do have a test fixture setup to test the AR0330’s signal over HDMI cable (for 20inches), but I have no idea how well that will work (don’t have drivers yet). I've only recently managed to even get a working MIPI system (Variscite has one based on an Omnivision sensor, and the Pandaboard finally has one). I assume the Caspa type camera will use the same Omnivision sensor because the drivers are already available for it, but it would be neat if they used something else.

 

3.) Does the current version of the Ubuntu for the DuoVero have proper power management and heatsinking so it doesn’t scale back the clock when at 100% cpu usage for an extended length of time? Maybe I’m not looking in the right place, but I don’t see any photos of the heat sinking for the DuoVero. I do see where it shows the weight of the available heatsink, but not what it looks like or the specs for it. Whether it’s designed so we can continuously utilize the full 1GHz at 100% CPU utilization. I ask this because one of my goals is to have it work with the PtGrey Chameleon camera. PointGrey has drivers, and instructions on how to get it working on the Pandaboard. It’s only major downside is the limited frame rate, and the fact that its caused every OMAP4 solution I’ve used to scale back the clock even with heatsinking.

 

4.) Will there be a faster 1.5 GHz version to compete against the Variscite VAR-SOM-OM44? Or is a 1GHz OM4430 as fast as one can reasonable expect from something as small as the gumstix.

 


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Re: DuoVero Camera

ashcharles
Hi Jason,

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Jason C. Mecham
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> 1.) Is there an estimate on when a Caspa type camera will be available for
> it? I love the fact that the MIPI/CSI is on the two connectors versus a less
> than ideal flex cable (at least it’s less than ideal for our application).
Yeah---those flex cables annoy me---they're too fiddly for my fingers!
 I'm keen to design a camera for the duoVero but I'm still hunting for
a good chip.  The Omnivision cameras seem to be the chip of choice in
terms of kernel support and what others are using with the 4430.
<step-onto-soapbox>I hate the fact that the datasheets are NDA'd---in
general, I will not choose an NDA'd chip (particularly on an expansion
board) as it limits how much I can share about the board and sometimes
obliges us to distribute magic binary blobs.  Making counter
open-source choices seems like a huge disservice to the community.
Sometimes there aren't better options though.</step-off-soapbox>
Any requests/recommendations for chips?

>
>
>
> 2.) Does anyone know the practical length limitation of MIPI/CSI using a
> shielded twisted pair cable with the correct impendence? My only issue with
> MIPI is really understanding how far I can drive the signal. In our current
> solution I use LVDS for about 20inches before it gets converted back into
> Parallel and then into the DM3730/OMAP3530. The current solution works well
> aside from the fact I have to use a digital filter to prevent EMI/ESD events
> from throwing off the ISP/Previewer, and the frame rate limitation by the
> ISP parallel interface. MIPI is the easiest way to overcome both of those
> headaches, but I've never seen anyone use it more than a few inches at most.
> I do have a test fixture setup to test the AR0330’s signal over HDMI cable
> (for 20inches), but I have no idea how well that will work (don’t have
> drivers yet). I've only recently managed to even get a working MIPI system
> (Variscite has one based on an Omnivision sensor, and the Pandaboard finally
> has one). I assume the Caspa type camera will use the same Omnivision sensor
> because the drivers are already available for it, but it would be neat if
> they used something else.
I don't know the length limitation but I welcome any suggested
sensors.  I've assumed in general that Gumstix users care more about
frame rate than high pixel count---is this true?

>
>
>
> 3.) Does the current version of the Ubuntu for the DuoVero have proper power
> management and heatsinking so it doesn’t scale back the clock when at 100%
> cpu usage for an extended length of time? Maybe I’m not looking in the right
> place, but I don’t see any photos of the heat sinking for the DuoVero. I do
> see where it shows the weight of the available heatsink, but not what it
> looks like or the specs for it. Whether it’s designed so we can continuously
> utilize the full 1GHz at 100% CPU utilization. I ask this because one of my
> goals is to have it work with the PtGrey Chameleon camera. PointGrey has
> drivers, and instructions on how to get it working on the Pandaboard. It’s
> only major downside is the limited frame rate, and the fact that its caused
> every OMAP4 solution I’ve used to scale back the clock even with
> heatsinking.
Duovero requires a heatsink to run under load.  We're still testing to
see what heatsink works best for continuous 1GHz operation but so far
have had to throttle :(.
>
>
>
> 4.) Will there be a faster 1.5 GHz version to compete against the Variscite
> VAR-SOM-OM44? Or is a 1GHz OM4430 as fast as one can reasonable expect from
> something as small as the gumstix.
As always, heat would be a challenge.  I suspect that a 4460/4470
based COM in the tiny Gumstix form-factor would still be useful to
many people even if it does require a good sized heat-sink.
Obviously, I'm rather interested in any opinions about the utility of
such a product so let me know ;-).

-Ash

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Re: DuoVero Camera

carveone
Just bringing this thread back up again because I'm suddenly interested in cameras for the Duovero. The Raspberry Pi has a camera based on an Omnivision OV5647. They connect via their CSi connector, which looks to have the same type of connections as the MIPI camera connections on the DuoVero (not sure what the CSi pinout is to be honest).

Perhaps their camera can be used with an adapter. Where problems may arise is drivers. The Pi has some sort of direct link with their GPU and all the drivers are binary only. Plus the OV5647 datasheet isn't "public". I put that in quotes because the first hit on google for "ov5647 datasheet" is the datasheet...

Not sure if it's reasonable to go this direction but it would be very useful to have a connected camera where you can change its parameters programmatically - exposure, white level balance etc.
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Re: DuoVero Camera

Chris Whittenburg

I would be willing to contribute to this from the software side and possibly donate resources-- schematic capture, pcb layout, or pcb assembly. 

I'm not crazy about the ov5647 because from the specs, it doesn't look like it's going to do that well in low light.  It seems like a 1080p sensor with larger pixels would be more useful for my particular applications.

My understanding is that to make this useful (H.264 encode), we would need to use the ducati engine, which requires NDA with TI?  Maybe that's not the case if we can do without the source code?  Is anyone educated on this issue?

Thanks,
Chris



On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, carveone <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just bringing this thread back up again because I'm suddenly interested in
cameras for the Duovero. The Raspberry Pi has a camera based on an
Omnivision OV5647. They connect via their CSi connector, which looks to have
the same type of connections as the MIPI camera connections on the DuoVero
(not sure what the CSi pinout is to be honest).

Perhaps their camera can be used with an adapter. Where problems may arise
is drivers. The Pi has some sort of direct link with their GPU and all the
drivers are binary only. Plus the OV5647 datasheet isn't "public". I put
that in quotes because the first hit on google for "ov5647 datasheet" is the
datasheet...

Not sure if it's reasonable to go this direction but it would be very useful
to have a connected camera where you can change its parameters
programmatically - exposure, white level balance etc.



--
View this message in context: http://gumstix.8.x6.nabble.com/DuoVero-Camera-tp4965718p4967995.html
Sent from the Gumstix mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: DuoVero Camera

carveone
That's very generous Chris, thank you.

I think that was the problem initially - deciding on a camera that
would be worth the effort, preferably with Linux drivers or an open
datasheet. Omnivision don't strike me as great in that regard compared
to, say, Aptina. I freely admit I can't tell that it's not so good in
low light; the specs are just numbers to me!

My thinking was that the Raspberry Pi's hardware would be similar
enough to make porting the hardware just a matter of pinouts. The
software is likely more work though. For my particular application, I
just need still pictures in the IR spectrum. No movies for me.

Thanks,

Conor.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Chris Whittenburg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I would be willing to contribute to this from the software side and possibly
> donate resources-- schematic capture, pcb layout, or pcb assembly.
>
> I'm not crazy about the ov5647 because from the specs, it doesn't look like
> it's going to do that well in low light.  It seems like a 1080p sensor with
> larger pixels would be more useful for my particular applications.
>
> My understanding is that to make this useful (H.264 encode), we would need
> to use the ducati engine, which requires NDA with TI?  Maybe that's not the
> case if we can do without the source code?  Is anyone educated on this
> issue?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM, carveone
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Just bringing this thread back up again because I'm suddenly interested in
>> cameras for the Duovero. The Raspberry Pi has a camera based on an
>> Omnivision OV5647. They connect via their CSi connector, which looks to
>> have
>> the same type of connections as the MIPI camera connections on the DuoVero
>> (not sure what the CSi pinout is to be honest).
>>
>> Perhaps their camera can be used with an adapter. Where problems may arise
>> is drivers. The Pi has some sort of direct link with their GPU and all the
>> drivers are binary only. Plus the OV5647 datasheet isn't "public". I put
>> that in quotes because the first hit on google for "ov5647 datasheet" is
>> the
>> datasheet...
>>
>> Not sure if it's reasonable to go this direction but it would be very
>> useful
>> to have a connected camera where you can change its parameters
>> programmatically - exposure, white level balance etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://gumstix.8.x6.nabble.com/DuoVero-Camera-tp4965718p4967995.html
>> Sent from the Gumstix mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> October Webinars: Code for Performance
>> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
>> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most
>> from
>> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> gumstix-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
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>

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Re: DuoVero Camera

carveone
In reply to this post by Chris Whittenburg
Actually, you (or others on the list) might be just the person to know
this. We have a group that are using a USB camera baed on the
Aptina/Micron MT9P031:
    http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/cameras/usb-ccd-color/dfk72buc02/

Seems like a pricey camera but I'm sure the specs are good (not that
I'd know). The drivers for this camera are Windows only and the
Windows software takes stills at a certain rate (1 every 5 seconds or
so I think). However, Aptina do have open source drivers for a MT9P031
based camera for the Leopardboard:

https://github.com/Aptina/BeagleBoard-xM/tree/master/MT9P031

It's a bit of a naïve question but if the chipset is the same, does
that follow that the open source drivers can be modified to run the
USB camera on a Gumstix? There are other cameras that are USB
connected and the key seems to be chipset rather than USB itself...
Maybe I'll get the Linux Device Drivers book :-)

If I'm wrong on this, are there manufacturers who actually have Linux
drivers that I can use?

Thanks,

Conor.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Chris Whittenburg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I would be willing to contribute to this from the software side and possibly
> donate resources-- schematic capture, pcb layout, or pcb assembly.
>
> I'm not crazy about the ov5647 because from the specs, it doesn't look like
> it's going to do that well in low light.  It seems like a 1080p sensor with
> larger pixels would be more useful for my particular applications.
>
> My understanding is that to make this useful (H.264 encode), we would need
> to use the ducati engine, which requires NDA with TI?  Maybe that's not the
> case if we can do without the source code?  Is anyone educated on this
> issue?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris

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the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
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